Stage 6

Discussing the need that withdrawal from the European Union also affords an opportunity to undertake a series of domestic reforms (FlexCit page 364), states at the outset:

Specifically, this stage confronts the idea that there is little point in recovering
powers from the EU, only to hand them back to the same institutions that gave
them away in the first place. Further, even without EU influence, the UK is an
overly centralised state, so the repatriation of powers from Brussels only for
them to reside in London or one of the other devolved capitals affords fewer
benefits to individual citizens than might be imagined. To a certain extent, the
effect of restoring a degree of “independence” would simply be to swap one
ruling class for another, with very little by way of beneficial effects for ordinary
people.

When FlexCit was published I disagreed completely , believing that Stage 6 (relating to the implementation of The Harrogate Agenda [THA]) was misplaced and should have been Stage 1, or at least run in tandem with Stages 1-5 – a subject on which I have written previously.

At this point, by way of explanation, readers will no doubt allow a digression on my part, in that two basic points need to be made when implementing a plan:

  • Unless commitment is made, there are only promises and hopes… but no plans.
  • Plans can only be good intentions unless they result in immediate implementation, something which encapsulates hard work.

It cannot be denied that THA was ‘parked’, to be resurrected as an afterthought of Brexit.  During my many telephone conversations with Niall Warry, the Director of THA, I asked the question that if the production of FlexCit, together with the formation and running costs of The Leave Alliance, could be ‘crowd-sourced’, then why not THA; to which no acceptable response was received.

Where democracy per se is concerned the electorate only know of representative democracy and have been lulled into believing that this form of democracy is the only one available. As such they are in a state of amnesia, one which is encouraged by a media that has no reason to tell us the truth about anything, whilst serving their corporate masters and our political class, both of whom have other plans to control and dominate us. Remember the words of David Cameron, on the steps of Downing Street in 2010?

…. it is about making sure people are in control – and that the politicians are always their servant and never their masters……

When we consider the word ‘freedom’ it may seem that we have our own plan for how we wish to lead our lives – because they are our lives, are they not? Unfortunately it is not the same as that envisaged by our politicians – who have other ideas; and are allowed to dictate to us through the current flawed system of democracy, which is one of their own making.

Where Brexit is concerned we now suffer a political class, who have decided that leaving the European Union means leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union. That they appear unable to differentiate twixt both begs the question on what is their premise based, coupled with another fact; they appear not to recognise the difference twixt membership of the EU and membership of the political construct of the EU.

When considering the question on the ballot paper in 2016, this then begs the question that there’s a big difference between deciding to leave and knowing where to go. Having decided to leave then logic dictates that it is for the people to decide where to go.

That preceding statement does not, in any way, mean that a second referendum is necessary on the decision that our current government has made. It means that had we direct democracy the people would have been able to utilise a method of immediately challenging the strategy decided upon by the prime minister – one who has shown herself to be a ‘Mayniac’.

THA was originally conceived as a means of giving the people a voice over how their nation  was to be governed. Unfortunately it now appears that those who seem to have ‘taken over’ what was envisaged as a people’s movement behave no better than those of our political class who wish to dictate our lives,  ie they have formed a small clique to do just that.

It is all very well to believe that there is little point in recovering powers from the EU, only to hand them back to the same institutions that gave them away in the first place; what has now become obvious is that it is folly to hand the decision to implement the will of the people back to those who are utterly clueless about the options available in order to rid ourselves of the political construct of the EU whilst also being able to maintain trade with the EU.

Consider, had THA been ‘progressed’, would we be in the situation we now find ourselves? Would we be suffering what are no more than inane comments on twitter by those who know not about the subject matter they tweet? Would we now be at the whim of politicians, the majority of whom have their own agendas? Would we now be facing a situation whereby if May loses the vote on her ‘deal’, which is more than likely, the opposition have announced they would call for a vote of no confidence resulting in a general election; at which time the electorate will be forced to elect one of them, neither of whom know what they are doing?

It has been said that education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today. In which case THA should not have been ‘parked’ and the director of that organisation should not have sat back and allowed it to remain dormant.

9 thoughts on “Stage 6

  1. While keeping in touch, with your now irregular posts, I don’t normally comment but when you repeat a falsehood, despite being told by me the facts, you need to be corrected.

    The blog EU Referendum and the production of Flexcit were never ‘Crowd funded’ and still isn’t. EU Referendum survives on limited contributions and Flexcit was published on line at no cost with a number of pamphlets produced by The Bruges Group at their cost. The Leave Alliance has one generous sponsor who supports the Efta/EEA option. As to THA it still has one small direct debit from an early supporter otherwise is kept afloat by me.

    As you should know, but conveniently seem to forget, your own Direct Democracy initiative, to engage in a two way conversation with the ‘people’, ended in complete failure as nobody gave a damn despite your enthusiasm for financing the initative with, no doubt, great hopes of success.

    THA blog now contains a post most weeks and gets a regular airing on the EU Referendum blog with its wide readership. It is still very much in the game albeit as you well know, promoting its worth to a largely disinterested electorate, is extremely difficult.

    However repeating the falsehood that TLA was ‘Crowd funded’ is the main reason I’m responding to this post.

    1. Niall, Thank you for your comment. To take your points in order:

      1. EUReferendum and The Harrogate Agenda both have ‘donate buttons’, consequently can be classified as being ‘crowd funded. The Leave Alliance, or at least Leave HQ on the Get Involved page states that donations are welcome, so once again can be classified as being crowd-funded.

      On this point I distinctly recall an article from RN stating that donations would be welcome to support both EURef and Pete North and also recall in the comments a number of pledges. Pete North has a donate button too.

      2 . Whilst I admit my own effort with DD4UK failed, at least I did put my money where my mouth is so to speak.

      3. I fund three blogs and am fully aware of the cost, which is peanuts in comparison to my income from pensions, so for you to say THA is kept afloat by you then it can’t be denting your wallet that much.

      4. THA is not in the game as you put it as its public output and public voice is virtually nil.

      5. If you can show, by means of ‘statements of accounts’ that none of the monies received by any of the donations made did not go towards FlexCit I will then withdraw that part of my assertion.

      6. With regard to promoting the worth of THA being difficult I can only say that is a defeatist statement. Nothing is difficult if time effort and money is provided.

      In passing I note that you do not respond to any of the points I have made; that if THA had ben progressed we may well not be in the mess we now find ourselves.

      On the bright side, at least you refrained from repeating all that Chartist nonsense, so for that I should be thankful.

  2. Consider the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch, the debate revolves around the status of the parrot and it’s much the same with THA. Here we have to admit THA is gone, deceased, moved on, shuffled off. Then we have to restrain ourselves from the what, why, how and who brought this demise about, it’s pointless it’s gone.
    Also at this moment while coming to terms with this passing we could remind ourselves that at the first Harrogate meeting many European political movements now with real power did not exist back then. The speed at which some political movements develop is astounding. In Spain for example there was a time when PODEMOS seemed oh-so-new and then along came VOX.

    And it’s pointless going on about the links between Flexcit and EUReferendum. For the latter, the patronage of the departed, could be the problem. The very name puts it alongside the parrot. We have had the referendum, some time ago now, it has passed and both the 52% and 48% will tell you this is so. In fact this could be the only point upon which they agree! An organisation dedicated to fighting the battles of yesterday is not an ideal platform upon which to build a forward looking political movement. Too much analysis and not enough action, no wonder Brexiteers are derided.

  3. In your post you wrote very clearly:-

    ” I asked the question that if the production of FlexCit, together with the formation and running costs of The Leave Alliance, could be ‘crowd-sourced’, then why not THA; to which no acceptable response was received.”

    Then in your reply you wrote:-

    “1. EUReferendum and The Harrogate Agenda both have ‘donate buttons’, consequently can be classified as being ‘crowd funded. The Leave Alliance, or at least Leave HQ on the Get Involved page states that donations are welcome, so once again can be classified as being crowd-funded.”

    You are all over the place in your continued efforts to try and prove THA would be far further forward if only we had listened to you.

    EU Referendum does receive donations via the donate button but TLA and THA do not. But you said as the TLA was ‘crowd sourced’, when it hasn’t been, and then suggested THA should have been ?????? The THA as you say has a donate button but has recieved zero, zilch, nowt.

    Just like your failed efforts with DD4UK THA has not yet caught on but if we cease to exist it will not be there when needed.

    The trouble with you continued carping is that you have NO more ideas than I do how to promote THA given we have no money and even if we did there is NO evidence that money alone would turn on the people to taking up our demands.

    You considered giving up blogging the other day which I’m surprised you didn’t do because I’m not certain what it is you are after achieving apart that is from a little carping from the sidelines and sharing the odd interesting link to Swiss drummers 🙂

    1. Niall,

      Your first three paragraphs do nothing to answer the allegation I made that THA could be further forward.

      You have not answered the point I made about RN actually writing that financial help would be helpful to progress EURef and TLA.

      As to my having no ideas about how to promote Direct Democracy, wait and learn! At that point your participation and input will not be required.

      While I don’t blog as much as I used to, I do participate on Twitter and very frequently RT RN’s articles with a suitable supportive comment – where are you?

      I respectively ask that until you can contribute to this discussion constructively may I suggest you cease attempting to comment on this blog?

      1. Some Twitter and some don’t and I have been after somebody to Tweet on behalf of THA for some considerable time but nobody wishes to take it on which pretty much sums up the apathy even among supposed supporters 🙁

        As to further commenting on your blog, as I said, I usually don’t but when you twist a fact to suit you carping I feel obliged to correct you.

        1. I do not ‘carp’, I raise logical points. You might not like that, but there it is. Accept that or just be quiet

          You want someone to tweet on behalf of THA (which is news to me) then I volunteer on the basis of no ‘editorial’ constraints. Take it or leave it?

          I note you still have yet to respond to the questions I raised in my article.

          In conclusion Niall, you amaze me. You give the impression you know all when,in fact, you know squat and don’t even agree to debate your unknowlegeable views.

  4. I asuming you are refering to this question?

    “It cannot be denied that THA was ‘parked’, to be resurrected as an afterthought of Brexit. During my many telephone conversations with Niall Warry, the Director of THA, I asked the question that if the production of FlexCit, together with the formation and running costs of The Leave Alliance, could be ‘crowd-sourced’, then why not THA; to which no acceptable response was received.”

    I thought I had answered it but let me try again.

    EU Referendum does receive donations via the blog but the TLA doesn’t as it doesn’t have a donate button. As to THA it has a donate button, although you imply it doesn’t, but I can tell you that it has received nothing but I do get one small s/o every month from an early supporter. I fund the rest which incidently I never said or implied was a heavy burden but it does come from my own pocket but I view it as essential to keep the legal entity going.

    One further point from the quote above about THA being parked. It is certainly true that the blog EU Referendum has concentrated on Brexit but I have not parked THA and have tried to keep the pot simmering with weekly blog posts and I keep in contact with the handful of original supporters and immediately respond to any queries I recieve off THA website but sadly not one new enquiry has produced one active volunteer.

    My conclusion from all this is that THA’s six demands are an idea ahead of its time, which also applied to your own DD4UK, and unless and until the public get more uncomfortable as things get worse nothing will make them focus on governmental reform.

    As to your offer of tweeting on behalf of the THA I would like to chat to you and will get in touch via e-mail next week.

    1. You chose the wrong question, Niall.

      Anyways never mind, we can discuss that when we speak.

      Whilst I would be willing to tweet for THA I must repeat the caveat made earlier – no editorial constraints.

      Await to hear from you.

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